Do termites eat h4 treated pine

Do termites eat h4 treated pine

I am going to build myself a picnic table from treated pine and I had planned on using the H4 grade stuff I’d read about for the legs to stop them from rotting. The bloke at the timber yard said the H3 stuff would do because its all going to rot in 20 years anyway.

What do you think?

h4 treated pine i garenteed for 40 years in the ground:2tsup: it is if u buy the stuff made by the right people.

h3 is meant for above ground use only. no ware near as good.:2tsup:

h4 treated pine i garenteed for 40 years in the ground:2tsup: it is if u buy the stuff made by the right people.

h3 is meant for above ground use only. no ware near as good.:2tsup:

That sounds more like what I thought was the case. Now I just have to find some nice straight stuff somewhere in Melbourne.

Most preservative treatmens for softwoods are full penetration treatments, hardwoods are a different prospect and only have what’s called an ‘envelope’ of treatment as the treament doesn’t penetrate the heartwood.

That’s what I was beginning to believe but I was looking at some stuff yesterday and the bloke told me that I would need to buy some of their Enseal or Ecoseal to seal all the cut ends. I’m trying to work out if that is the case or if the bloke doesn’t know what he is talking about.

thats just what they are told to tell you.

they wanna sell u the treatment.

i have made over 10 000 cuts in treated pine and am yet to find one without full penetration.

treated hardwood only penetrates 5-10mm if ya lucky and even end sealing teh cuts dosent stop it rotting. never ever use treated hardwood!:2tsup:

termites will not eat h4 treated pine but after a long time they will cross it.

i get my treated pine from teh local produce store.

i make sure they get me good stuff its all guaranteed for 40 years in the ground and manufacturer will honour this.

I put up a treated pine log fence with my father in Tasmania about 30 years ago. It was a decorative and functional fence. The thing is still as solid today as it was all those years ago. I can remember Dad going to some effort to get the best quality treated pine and that has stood the test of time.

The treatment is definately full thickness he was slicing through the logs with a chainsaw. We went to the mill where they had a pressure treatment facility. The logs are placed in this and the treatment forced into the logs under high pressure. It doesn’t work so well with hardwood as the treatment is unable to penetrate the densely packed fibres of hardwood.

Most preservative treatmens for softwoods are full penetration treatments, hardwoods are a different prospect and only have what’s called an ‘envelope’ of treatment as the treament doesn’t penetrate the heartwood.

You cannot treat the core in round poles.

G’day Weisyboy,- You seem to be a full bottle on treated pine so maybe you can answer this question for me. I am now more or less retired however I’m going to build one more house for me and my wife next year. I have built a half dozen homes in this area and only ever used f 5 untreated pinus radiata for the wall frames and have never had any white ant problems.The last house I built was 7 years ago. I am getting a bit paranoid about termites now and am debating about using steel frames , altho I would rather work in timber. In your opinion is there any treated pine that I can use that would be guaranteed to put off any white ants.?This next place will only have cladding on the exterior,- I wouldn’t use Hardiplank again,- even tho it’s a good product you still get spiders peeking their heads out of the overlaps. Cheers, Lenco

most Pine producers today offer a
H2 treatment( insecticide only) for framing purposes.
H3 more suitable for exposed applications ( insecticide & fungicide)
H4 for inground use.
H5 for marine applications.

They are not repellants – just make the mongrels really crook IF they try to eat it.
They can and will still walk through the cracks chasing yummier food optionms.

I put up a treated pine log fence with my father in Tasmania about 30 years ago. It was a decorative and functional fence. The thing is still as solid today as it was all those years ago. I can remember Dad going to some effort to get the best quality treated pine and that has stood the test of time.

The treatment is definately full thickness he was slicing through the logs with a chainsaw. We went to the mill where they had a pressure treatment facility. The logs are placed in this and the treatment forced into the logs under high pressure. It doesn’t work so well with hardwood as the treatment is unable to penetrate the densely packed fibres of hardwood.

you are lucky the dill pumped heaps of woofer juice into the wood.
Expect no more than 10mm penetration on H3 products these days -$$$$$$$$$$.
Buy a suitable paint on end seal from any decent hardware to paint over checkouts, rebates, mortices and cut ends etc for better protection.

thats why h3 is not used in the ground.

lenco – i would use hardwood. but if you really want to use pine then use h4 treated pine. its hard to get but worth it.:2tsup:

www.woodworkforums.com

Hi everyone, thanks for reading.

I have some ongoing landscaping/reno issues. Live in the hills outside Melbourne and our block urgently needs a new retaining wall between us and our lower neighbour. The wall is about 25 m long and just under a metre high so costly to build.

We had agreed on treated wood due to cost as it is an extra $1200 for the concrete sleepers. We have been told that wood will last us 20 years but we had a fly in of termites recently (our house has been inspected and all fine and is treated, theirs is closer to the wall and isn’t treated as far as I know). What are the chances of our brand new wall getting eaten by termites and needing replacement? Also the drainage is TERRIBLE at the moment so water pours through the existing wall so I am worried that it will rot long before the 20 years is up, or even 10 years, perhaps less. We are getting work done on the drainage problem (we have downpipes that aren’t even connected to anything so we will fix that for starters) and would get the landscaper to put in a pipe at the base of the wall to carry water away but would that be enough? The neighbour is lower so she cops all of our run off plus that of the rest of the street higher up regardless of the water from the roof.

What should we do? If the neighbour doesn’t want a concrete wall then we can’t afford to pay the difference but we might be able to split the cost of the concrete wall with them. How to approach this though? I am so worried that they will say we have to pay for the concrete which is going to blow out the already very tight budget.

It’s treated pine and should be rated H4 for in ground use, should be fine against termites and water for a while to come.

There should be gravel and ag pipe behind the wall, it is typically black with a white sock on it, one end should be sticking out of the ground at the high end and the lower end should be drained away somewhere.

It is illegal for you to have uncontrolled discharge of stormwater onto your neighbour’s property. As you have noticed, fixing that issue is definitely your first step.

H4 treated sleepers should be fine for 20 years, if they are built and drained correctly. H4 treated is also termite resistant so I wouldn’t worry too much.

As you are the “up hill” land owner it is your land being retained and therefore your responsibility to build and maintain the retaining wall. ( unless Victoria is different )

$1200 extra for concrete is not a big price to pay in the overall scheme of things.

It is illegal for you to have uncontrolled discharge of stormwater onto your neighbour’s property. As you have noticed, fixing that issue is definitely your first step.

Yep, we know. I am going to post another thread on this because we don’t know anything about what sort of pipes are available or what we should pay for it. There is actually only one that is disconnected completely, but the others might as well be as the gutters are stuffed. We only got a clear picture of the issues when we cleared the land as it was so overgrown that you couldn’t see where the pipes went. This is our first house and it has been a real pandoras box. It has taken us two years and virtually every weekend to clear the jungle and all we have uncovered are problems, like this wall that was previous hidden by undergrowth.

As you are the “up hill” land owner it is your land being retained and therefore your responsibility to build and maintain the retaining wall. ( unless Victoria is different )

There are no specific rules on this that I have been able to find, and I have looked long and hard. I even posted about it but nobody could give me a definite answer, most said take the 50:50 offer. The neighbours built their house 10 years after our house so who knows what the land was like before, probably just a slope I guess. They have dug out their land to make it flat. Originally the street was just a handful of houses on massive sloping blocks that were subdivided in the 1970’s to pay for a proper road. They are happy to go 50:50 anyway so I am happy with that!

$1200 extra for concrete is not a big price to pay in the overall scheme of things.

Depends on how much money you have! ha ha:) But yes, agreed it is better value. I have now spoken to them and we are going to go with the concrete but thank you for the info on the H4 sleepers, that is very helpful to know as we have other less soggy walls to put in at some point.

forums.whirlpool.net.au

Wood Retaining Walls vs White Ants

I have spent the last few days going through the threads on here and seem to be getting mixed responses & answers to my main fearquestion.

I’m looking at a wooden retaining walls, my major concern is white ants and if treated pineredwoodother options are treated against white ants?

From what i have learnt from threads on this forum is to stay away from the big green box “treated pine”, be prepared for some twisting and bowing and not to have 2.4 meter lengths.

If the wooden retaining wall options don’t stand up well against white ants, I will have to go the cement sleeper look.

Thanks
ST13

I’m no expert but I’m building H4 CCA treated pine retaining walls and I know I have termites in this area. If I leave untreated timber on the ground it is devoured within months. I’ve had part of my retaining wall built for about a year now and I’m not aware of any damage.

The treatment must be H4 (or higher), H3 is not suitable if the timber makes contact with the dirt.

As far as I’m aware the Arsenic in CCA will kill termites if they attempt to eat it (just breathing a hint of saw dust through a dust mask from treated pine almost kills me!). I’ve heard mixed reports on how long this can keep going for, definitely at least 10 years. Some say the termites will get through within 10-20 years, but elsewhere I have read that treated pine simply has not existed long enough for any documented cases of the treatment failing (50 to 70 years or something like that).

When I have been concerned about cut ends of the timber appearing like the treatment has not penetrated far enough into the timber I have also wet the ends and then applied Hovex Termite Defender (from Bunnings insecticide section), that probably only lasts a couple years max though.

If you wanted to be extra careful you could use a termite barrier (that orange stuff like Kordon). From what I’m told – even just being near it deters termites, so it doesn’t have to be a perfect seal. I’ve never purchased it myself though, I imagine it would cost a bit to do things this way, and termite barriers are usually only used when building up against your house (like concrete patios and driveways).

There is definite twisting and bowing in building treated pine retaining walls. Often the horizontal sections don’t want to sit flat just because the timber comes all imperfect and wonky. Certainly making upright posts less than 2.4m apart (e.g. 1.2m) seems to help any bowing happening because of pressure from the backfill (proper drainage efforts with gravel and agpipe supposedly help, so I’m going all out on that). Personally I’ve been aiming for 2.4m which is almost never possible because of severely rocky ground, so I just pull it back and put a post wherever I can. I’ve also been screwing offcuts to the back of the wall to try and straighten and strengthen the spans, this doesn’t magically help anything though – often the boards just don’t want to straighten and the screws on the offcuts can’t be tightened all the way.

If you can afford the cement sleepers, and I suppose the extra precision it takes to work with them, it is probably better though The treated pine look isn’t fantastic. I would consider cement sleepers in more visible areas, such as if you can see the wall from your patio. Depends if you like that look though I guess.

I have considered ‘dressing’ my retaining walls with another type of timber (or something else?) – not structural. something that looks a bit better, and hides the inconsistency of the treated pine. This would probably be a lot more susceptible to termites, weather, fungus, bacteria, etc.. but it would be done in such a way that it could be replaced. Not sure if I can spend the money and time to do this though!

forum.homeone.com.au

  • from July 2017
  • to October 2017

So I am in the process of removing almost 100 timber ( hardwood ) sleepers of a retaining wall and replacing with concrete sleepers.
I started the first section today and..yup, the timber has termites, so I have 30 meters of retaining wall with termites.
Now. As I go section by section what do I do with the removed timber.

1. Lay in backyard and stack until I dispose of the lot, the mites will stay in the sleepers and not move
2. Get rid of each sleeper immediately, they are marching towards your house already.

I am guessing they have enough wood to not want to go to my house. I have no reason to believe they have an interest in it with ALL OF THAT easy timber?

3. I am an idiot with no idea

Either way. Best to assume termites are always out there. If your house was susceptible they would be in there already rather than in the wall which is probably treated.

Yeah I see no evidence of termites in the house and I go in the roof space a lot as well. It’s concrete slab house, I have reno the kitchen and two bathrooms in last 3 years, seen no problems with the framing.
Still. Is leaving a stack of termites on the lawn a bad idea?

No I wouldn’t suggest making a feature of them long term but a few weeks shouldn’t cause you any greif.

3. I am an idiot with no idea

I’m not agreeing with you but rather asking you if you are POSITIVE that what you believe to be termites are actually termites. Many other people here om WP have been shown to be incorrect with their belief so maybe, just maybe, you are also incorrect with your belief.

but rather asking you if you are POSITIVE that what you believe to be termites

No expert. But timber has been eaten in channels. I saw the white ants, they were “white” and they ran away fast ( within half hour ) unlike the black ants ( of which there were plenty )

Yep sounds like termites. They run away cos they hate light. They like warm dark and damp conditions. Leave them in the middle of the lawn and they can only escape through the ground which will take a while. In the meantime black ants will make a meal of them. Upset their little empire by spreading them out a little to expose them to the elements.

cheers.
BTW, there are few black ant nests along the length

because of the white ants?
I did see a small pocket of ( sugar like ? ) eggs at the bottom rear of the 1.2 mtr wall section once removed. I probably should have killed them but then i had small landslide and it got lost. There are probably many spots like that along this 30 mtr wall though

I did see a small pocket of ( sugar like ? ) eggs at the bottom rear

Probably black ant eggs.

Also inspect edges of slab to make sure that nothing is pie aghainst it that will allow the termites to cross into frame/wood of house.

Leaving the infested sleepers laying around won’t pose too much of risk in the short term.
The main population of the termites is still underground. The ones occupying the sleepers are highly unlikely to find their way back to the main population. Even though they have found all those juicy sleepers they will still be on the prowl elsewhere so stay on guard.

If you are in a problem area and your concerned, shouldnt you call a termite inspector because disturbing them will cause them to move, possible to your house?

The inspector can tell you if it’s just dampwood termites.

If you are in a problem area

I don’t know if I am though. With 30 meters of hardwood 1.6 m high they were eventually going to find it after the treatments wore off?

Get a pest inspector to have a look. Some termite species require higher moisture content than others to survive and simply won’t have a go at house framing. Others will happily nibble their way through anything they come across no matter how dry it is.

It’s worth having them identified so you at least know what you’re dealing with, and have them baited before doing any more work if they’re an invasive species.

One thing is certain, get a pest controller in and he’ll do his best to convince you that your whole house will be eaten within days if you don’t let him start an intensive and expensive chemical based program immediately, to get rid of every six and eight legged bug within a kilometre. Go to the library and get a couple of books on termites and read up about them. As said already just check the perimeter of your house for any mud tunnels. If none relax.

One thing is certain, get a pest controller in and he’ll do his best to convince you that your whole house will be eaten within days if you don’t let him start an intensive and expensive chemical based program immediately,

Yup.
I have eyes and brains. These guys charge on fear not competence .

Yup.
I have eyes and brains. These guys charge on fear not competence .

They can’t really say anything else though. In the off chance that the problem spreads to someone’s house in the near future, they may become liable, or at least be defending a law suit. So if someone refuses treatment, as least they are in the clear.

Get a pest inspector to have a look. Some termite species require higher moisture content than others to survive and simply won’t have a go at house framing. Others will happily nibble their way through anything they come across no matter how dry it is.

we had also exposed termites in sleepers when doing a garden remodel.
Immediately covered them back up, knowing they would take off back to the nest and we wouldn’t be able to ID them or treat them if they are disturbed.

A Pesty friend came out and had a look, said they weren’t the species to be overly worried about. And he sprayed them anyway, just because people freak out about termites, and if we ever sell it’s better not to have any around that might panic people that don’t know the difference.

One thing is certain, get a pest controller in and he’ll do his best to convince you that your whole house will be eaten within days if you don’t let him start an intensive and expensive chemical based program immediately,

Helps to have a Pesty friend that doesn’t push for over the top treatment. I recommend everybody find one πŸ™‚

forums.whirlpool.net.au

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