Do termites eat h3 treated pine

Do termites eat h3 treated pine

I am going to build myself a picnic table from treated pine and I had planned on using the H4 grade stuff I’d read about for the legs to stop them from rotting. The bloke at the timber yard said the H3 stuff would do because its all going to rot in 20 years anyway.

What do you think?

h4 treated pine i garenteed for 40 years in the ground:2tsup: it is if u buy the stuff made by the right people.

h3 is meant for above ground use only. no ware near as good.:2tsup:

h4 treated pine i garenteed for 40 years in the ground:2tsup: it is if u buy the stuff made by the right people.

h3 is meant for above ground use only. no ware near as good.:2tsup:

That sounds more like what I thought was the case. Now I just have to find some nice straight stuff somewhere in Melbourne.

Most preservative treatmens for softwoods are full penetration treatments, hardwoods are a different prospect and only have what’s called an ‘envelope’ of treatment as the treament doesn’t penetrate the heartwood.

That’s what I was beginning to believe but I was looking at some stuff yesterday and the bloke told me that I would need to buy some of their Enseal or Ecoseal to seal all the cut ends. I’m trying to work out if that is the case or if the bloke doesn’t know what he is talking about.

thats just what they are told to tell you.

they wanna sell u the treatment.

i have made over 10 000 cuts in treated pine and am yet to find one without full penetration.

treated hardwood only penetrates 5-10mm if ya lucky and even end sealing teh cuts dosent stop it rotting. never ever use treated hardwood!:2tsup:

termites will not eat h4 treated pine but after a long time they will cross it.

i get my treated pine from teh local produce store.

i make sure they get me good stuff its all guaranteed for 40 years in the ground and manufacturer will honour this.

I put up a treated pine log fence with my father in Tasmania about 30 years ago. It was a decorative and functional fence. The thing is still as solid today as it was all those years ago. I can remember Dad going to some effort to get the best quality treated pine and that has stood the test of time.

The treatment is definately full thickness he was slicing through the logs with a chainsaw. We went to the mill where they had a pressure treatment facility. The logs are placed in this and the treatment forced into the logs under high pressure. It doesn’t work so well with hardwood as the treatment is unable to penetrate the densely packed fibres of hardwood.

Most preservative treatmens for softwoods are full penetration treatments, hardwoods are a different prospect and only have what’s called an ‘envelope’ of treatment as the treament doesn’t penetrate the heartwood.

You cannot treat the core in round poles.

G’day Weisyboy,- You seem to be a full bottle on treated pine so maybe you can answer this question for me. I am now more or less retired however I’m going to build one more house for me and my wife next year. I have built a half dozen homes in this area and only ever used f 5 untreated pinus radiata for the wall frames and have never had any white ant problems.The last house I built was 7 years ago. I am getting a bit paranoid about termites now and am debating about using steel frames , altho I would rather work in timber. In your opinion is there any treated pine that I can use that would be guaranteed to put off any white ants.?This next place will only have cladding on the exterior,- I wouldn’t use Hardiplank again,- even tho it’s a good product you still get spiders peeking their heads out of the overlaps. Cheers, Lenco

most Pine producers today offer a
H2 treatment( insecticide only) for framing purposes.
H3 more suitable for exposed applications ( insecticide & fungicide)
H4 for inground use.
H5 for marine applications.

They are not repellants – just make the mongrels really crook IF they try to eat it.
They can and will still walk through the cracks chasing yummier food optionms.

I put up a treated pine log fence with my father in Tasmania about 30 years ago. It was a decorative and functional fence. The thing is still as solid today as it was all those years ago. I can remember Dad going to some effort to get the best quality treated pine and that has stood the test of time.

The treatment is definately full thickness he was slicing through the logs with a chainsaw. We went to the mill where they had a pressure treatment facility. The logs are placed in this and the treatment forced into the logs under high pressure. It doesn’t work so well with hardwood as the treatment is unable to penetrate the densely packed fibres of hardwood.

you are lucky the dill pumped heaps of woofer juice into the wood.
Expect no more than 10mm penetration on H3 products these days -$$$$$$$$$$.
Buy a suitable paint on end seal from any decent hardware to paint over checkouts, rebates, mortices and cut ends etc for better protection.

thats why h3 is not used in the ground.

lenco – i would use hardwood. but if you really want to use pine then use h4 treated pine. its hard to get but worth it.:2tsup:

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This is for outdoor use. If I use regular pine and paint it does it make it weather proof? Or must I use treated pine then paint for outdoor use.

How is treated pine more resistant to weather?

You need to choose the right timber for the right application, treated pine is based on hazard rating (H)

  • H1: Used indoors or above the ground. Not resistant to termites.
  • H2: Used indoors or above the ground. Resistant to termites.
  • H3: Used outside, above the ground. Resistant to termites.
  • H4: Used outdoors, in ground or ground contact. Resistant to termites.
  • H5 Used outdoors, in ground with water contact. Resistant to termites.
  • H6: Used when in constant contact with salt water.

Going by the grades above, if I was to use treated pine to build some planter boxes which should I use? It will be to grow small amounts of clumping bamboo to use as a screen. I intend to line the base with landscaping mesh and probably line the sides with builders plastic and then also raise the boxes off ground level with some pavers. Beneath the boxes are more pavers.

So outdoor, I want resistant to termites and will be in some contact with the internal soil and fresh water at all times. I intend to go with 200×50 dimensions.

All I’d use “regular” Pine for.
Was shavings in 1215in 6in sewer pipe offcuts.
Capped top and bottom with holes all round.
Let into garden at regular places to check for White Ants.
Cap above ground. just screw of occasionally and check.

When any there.
Ad some Treatment chemicals in there.
They take back to nest and By By. till next lot.

FIRST line of defence in Queensland.
And Sth Australia,

This is for outdoor use. If I use regular pine and paint it does it make it weather proof?

No. Pretty easy to rot if any imperfections in the paint and at joins etc. The rot will spread through the timber without your knowledge under the paint.

Use H3 treated pine which is available in rough sawn and dressed including pre-primed.

How is treated pine more resistant to weather?

The treatment includes a fungicide to make it more difficult for wood rot to establish and spread.

Going by the grades above, if I was to use treated pine to build some planter boxes which should I use?

H4 if it is in contact with the soil.

How is treated pine more resistant to weather?

Treated pine will still weather, e.g. split, twist, warp. Don’t get weathering confused with rotting, it’s two different things.

In my own case i used H3 treated pine.

Treated pine will still weather, e.g. split, twist, warp. Don’t get weathering confused with rotting, it’s two different things.

Very true and particularly so of timber that has not been kiln dried. I will be using H3 kiln dried treated pine which is also knot free for making up some window sashes. It is half the price of western red cedar and easier to get, should last just as long and won’t need an oil-based undercoat before painting.

if I was to use treated pine to build some planter boxes which should I use

H4, because it’s in contact with soil. Termites come through the ground to get to timber, so unless you’re sitting the planter box on a concrete pad you might get away with H3, but to eliminate the risk just go H4 like the recommendations say.

I’m building a deck in our new house, the pillars if I were to just sink them into the soil would have to be H4, if I encase them in concrete then I can use H3 because I’ve barriered the timber from the soil. For the supports underneath I’ll probably still use H4 rather than H3 because it’s quite close to the ground.

I only put steel into the ground.

Treated pine everywhere else. Wear goggles and don’t inhale any sawdust when cutting. Tiniest amount can really cause serious discomfort from my unfortunate experience.

This is for outdoor use. If I use regular pine and paint it does it make it weather proof? Or must I use treated pine then paint for outdoor use.

if this is for the garden then refrain from using treated pine products as they have chemicals that can interfere with our health especially the children.

also disposal has ramifications that may negate the cost savings by using it.

How is treated pine more resistant to weather?

What are you building?

I would not use treated pine for a planter box if I could avoid it . Treated pine is treated with arsenic.

Treated pine is treated with arsenic.

I know it was used but do you have any source to indicate that it is still used? Your link is many years old and points to discussion about CCA well over a decade ago. It was my understanding that current (within the past 8-10 years) timber treatments do not use CCA.

t was my understanding that current (within the past 8-10 years) timber treatments do not use CCA.

Your understanding is not correct as the CCA treatment is still used today albeit with regulations.

Its use has diminished due to the dangers (very real and present) have been documented especially when bushfires leave an ash that can cause problems.

The industry (pine wood) and csrio have been researching alternatives since the problem surfaced but have not gone as far as finding a solution that is safe enough to use where people exist.

As for sources the web has enough and the csiro site should have some I am sure.

Your understanding is not correct as the CCA treatment is still used today albeit with regulations.

Indeed it is.It is still far and away the most common treatment in garden sleepers,edging,slabs,logs etc.

edit : ACQ and LOSP treated timber is slowly is slowly gaining traction though.

Treated pine is treated with arsenic.

Very out of date information. While arsenic can still be found in some treated pine, e.g. CCA, pine used for joinery and other applications where machining is expected use LOSP (Light Organic Solvent Preservative) or other treatments that are not poisonous to people.

I use Tru-Pine which is treated with Azole as the fungicide (which is also used for the treatment of fungus infections in people), and permethrin which is also used to treat lice and scabies in people.

I wouldn’t be so hooked up with the fear of arsenic, it is found naturally in soils, food and drinking water. Arsenic occurs naturally in many foods you eat including lobster, mussels and prawns, but as an organo-arsenic is relatively harmless arsenic passes through us unnoticed. Arsenic is sill used as a medicine to treat blood and bone marrow cancers.

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I am planing to build a brick veneer house. One of things I am not sure is that what timber I should use for the timber frame. I heard usually people use treated pine or oregon. So which one is better? By the way, there is termites in my area. Are both timber prevent damage from termites?

T2 . the blue stuff

Use cypress timber framing – it’s naturally termite resistant

Yup no termite is gonna be eating that! Keep in mind you still should have a termite barrier in place as other furnishings in the house can be eaten by the termites.

Treated pine is the most popular.

Steel framing is liked by some but care needs to be taken with electrical wiring.

Oregon not favoured and for most applications not even desirable. Got a bad reputation for external use and fell out of favour. Oregon doesn’t get on well with fresh water and will rot like crazy. Termites love it too.

You can now get H3 treated Oregon – not sure of the cost but it would be more expensive than pine. But even the H3 treated pine which has good longtivity and is termite resistant but must be painted for external use.

Not sure of the availability – I don’t know of any timber merchants in my area handling it.

Steel framing is liked by some but care needs to be taken with electrical wiring.

Not really an issue IMO. Any good steel frame manufacturer will pre-punch and flare holes for the wiring and where additional holes are needed (or they aren’t flared) you simply bush them. If anything a steel framed home should be faster to rough in than a timber framed home.

The frame also has a dedicated earth bond back to the switchboard and normally all circuits are RCD protected in a house, so no issues safety wise with a steel framed home.

THink this pretty much sums it up

Thank all of you for the help.

I read the article about the steel and treated pine, and article about the oregon. I think I will use treated pine or cypress. Also I guess steel and oregon might be much expensive than treated pine.

I am glad to know that termites do like cypress, but is there any disadvantage of cypress?
For treated pine, do I must use H5, H6 pines?

Thank you again.

Common Uses for Cypress F7 Structural Timber

Post and beam construction, mudbrick house frames, traditional timber framing
Thick, wide planks for wharf-style decking
Bearers, joists, lintels, exposed beams, exposed rafters, battens
Verandahs, decks, gazebos, pergolas – all outdoor structures
Drop-slab construction

Features of Cypress F7 Structural Timber

Extraordinarily stable. Shrinkage is minimal.
Old-growth trees. Slow growing. Tight grain.
Naturally termite resistant: with a naturally mildly spicy fragrance
Lighter weight makes handling and lifting less tiring. And safer. Lighter than most hardwoods!

Features of Cypress F7 Structural Timber

Extraordinarily stable. Shrinkage is minimal.
Old-growth trees. Slow growing. Tight grain.
Naturally termite resistant: with a naturally mildly spicy fragrance
Lighter weight makes handling and lifting less tiring. And safer. Lighter than most hardwoods!

Cypress is an amazing timber but In a nutshell, no, I wouldn’t recommend using cypress for framing.

Read on.
I’ve built a house with cypress pine framing and your points are mostly correct but you are only listing the upsides.

Firstly, no one in their right mind is going to use f7 seasoned cypress for stud work, structural beams sure but not bearers, joists or stud work. Seasoned cypress is too hard/brittle and too expensive for framing.

Secondly, your statement about its weight is misleading. Considering no one uses hardwood for stud work these days then cypress is about the heaviest timber to use, it’s only pine by name, it’s actually denser than quite a few hardwoods. Much heavier than treated pine or steel studs.

About using cypress for framing – cypress for framing is normally used in its “green” (unseasoned) state as it’s too brittle and hard if its too dry. Cypress isn’t going to be even close to perfectly straight like steel studs and its considerably more difficult to work with compared to treated pine because of its lack of straightness, tendency to split and seeing as you mentioned it, it’s not that light either. A nail gun is mandatory. If someone is not a skilled carpenter I would not recommend using cypress at all.

However everything else you say is correct. it’s an incredibly durable timber, it’s very termite resistant over a very long period of time and it’s cheaper than treated pine. It lasts way longer than any treated pine when in ground contact.
Any cost saving is lost though if you are paying someone to use it, it’s more labour intensive to use compared to TP or steel stud work because it will split and its going to be bowed and often twisted.

If the OP is building a conventional BV house then treated pine or steel stud work is the quickest most economical material to use.
Oregon pine Is not even a consideration.

If you are a proficient carpenter and have plenty of time then cypress is worth considering for the possible cost saving although you will curse it.

For the record I used cypress for bearers, joists, stud work and roof framing and I wouldn’t use it again. Sure the framing will never suffer white ant issues but it was a pain to use, was heavier than treated pine would have been and its required to have other termite protections in place anyway so I saved a couple of grand, not worth it compared to how much extra work it took to end up with a nice level floor and flat walls. There was lots of crippling and lots of planing to get things flat.

As I’ve covered, cypress is an amazing timber with unique properties but there are very good reasons why virtually no one uses it for framing in Australia.

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wanting to find out about different treated timbers to use around the house and garden good ones and the bad ones. have 4 kids running round so dont want bad stuff. also the white ants that attack homes do they attack hard wood, sleepers etc, cheers craig

dont want bad stuff.

I think all the bad stuff has been banned, at least in Victoria it has.

also the white ants that attack homes do they attack hard wood, sleepers etc

Sure do, I have heard that they even chew through concrete slabs.

have 4 kids running round so dont want bad stuff. also the white ants that attack homes do they attack hard wood, sleepers etc

With kids around, you should avoid CCA treated timber anywhere that they might play.
Hardwood is resistant to termite attacks, but not completely immune.
If you’re using it in the garden, then will it really be a total disaster if it does get termites? Compare the risk of this happening (ie it might, but probably won’t), and the consequences if it does (replace that bit of timber, get in pest controller), with the risk to your children of using timber that puts poison on their hands every time they touch it.
Also, don’t go nuts killing ants in your garden. Termites won’t get too far in a piece of timber that’s next to an ants’ nest.

I have heard that they even chew through concrete slabs.

While termites can eat through soft plastics and soft metals, they can’s eat through concrete.

they can’s eat through concrete.

They dont eat it but they can make cracks in the concrete wider so they can fit thru it.

have 4 kids running round so dont want bad stuff. also the white ants that attack homes do they attack hard wood, sleepers etc, cheers craig

upto H3 level treated timber, its no longer CCA (copper chrome arsenic), but a safer variety.

the other thing thats important is how old are your kids – CCA for playground equipment was banned because toddlers might chew on the wood or suck on it – by 3 or 4 they seem to have grown out of this. Second there is very little evidence that there is any actual harm – its all theoretical harm.

Whats available locally to you is whats available – no point getting yourself all attached to one version of product that is either not available or not appropriate. Do not ever stick H3 in the ground, it will rot, however H5 will last longer than any hardwood in ground – esoecially branded longs (eg koppers).

Having been brought up in a place with trees and hardwood sleepers for stairs – they are a huge pita – you will be fixing them up every few years as they get eaten away, unless really well drained.

About the only thing you can do that constitutes what would logically present a possible danger is to make a table you eat off, out of CCA treated pine – though given that many hundreds of thousands of such structures exist already and no-one can prove that CCA actually has a cancer outcome, you can pretty sure the risk is incredibly low – nevertheless use hardwood for tables, and keep CCA pine for in ground contact.

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